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Sherry
07-06-2007, 08:58 PM
As you all know, I have a 10 month old puppy named Lincoln. I absolutely love this little dog but I have been hiding a secret. He is as nasty as they come. He is very head strong, is defiant, has all sorts of issues, and on top of it all, he's a biter. He has bitten Jenna MULTIPLE times.

I am seriously considering returning the dog to the breeder and it absolutely breaks my heart. This dog is NOT the dog I wanted. He is afraid of strangers. He is afraid of other dogs. He is afraid of the car and vomits any time we take him places. He urinates all over my floors if a stranger approaches. He growls and bites my daughter. He barks incessantly when I let him outside - so much that I think the neighbors are ticked at us. He's completed two series of dog classes and although he seems eager to learn and does learn quickly, he is completely on edge the entire time he's there and goes bananas every time another dog barks or approaches him.

The trainer suggested I give him back but I was thinking that it wasn't a fair thing to do. I bought the dog and it was my responsibility to train and care for it right? With this in mind, I consulted a well noted dog behaviorist (at the cost of $120 per hour) and she told me the same thing. Get rid of the dog. She says that he has way too many issues (all caused by a not so good breeding) and if I were to keep him, it would mean at least 1 to 2 hours of DAILY training for the rest of his life and even then, I could not let my guard down and trust him.

I am sooo distraught. I know deep down that giving him back is the best and safest thing to do for my daughter but why is so difficult for me to do?? I feel guilty and I feel like a failure.

I have been documenting some of the bites - take a look.

PS. As I am writing this, the dog was just here curling his lip/baring his teeth at my daughter.

ctinyjoy
07-06-2007, 09:06 PM
As I am reading your post I am watching the Dog Whisperer wth Cesar Milan. He has worked with some nasty dogs, but Lincoln sounds like he does have many issues. I would think that for your daughter's safety you probably should return him. I wonder if Cesar comes to visit for free?

stampcrazyjulie
07-06-2007, 09:07 PM
Oh no! I didn't know that you could even give a Dog back to the Breeder.....

I would probably try & find an alternate Home for Him instead. Maybe he needs a Home without Children or with a Single Person or somebody who can spend more one on one time with him hiking or spening time outdoors.

I had a Yellow Lab named Daisy that we had to give away when she was 10 months old. She knocked me unconscious in the driveway and that was the final straw. I have never given a Dog away....ever until we bought her. She was just crazy! :wacko:

The Dog I have now is terrible around other People & Children. If she wasn't 11 years old & the fact that I also owned her Mom I would have given her away long ago.

I am not one to put a Dog down for bad behavior....I would rather find a different Home that might work better....

Good Luck, Sherry!

Fief14
07-06-2007, 09:14 PM
Sherry, as hard as it may be that dog has got to go! Don't feel like a failure, you've tried, you've given it your best & it's not worth your daughter's life. Her bite marks look horrible & the fact that she has a bite on her face is scary. You will feel so much better & relaxed when the dog is gone. Besides that, no one ever said you can't have another one. The next one may be just a eager & willing to learn, but also love you & your family back in return, rather than tear you all apart! (Sorry...I don't mean for this to be a play on words. I meant emotionally!)

Please keep us posted.

My3Ds
07-06-2007, 09:14 PM
Sherry - what a tough decision. I think that biting your dd would be the deciding factor. Lincoln definitely needs a different home. If the breeding is bad, I think I would ask the breeder for some sort of refund. How does your dd feel knowing that she could be bitten at any given time? Is she nervous or afraid of Lincoln because of the bites?

inkinupstamps
07-06-2007, 09:18 PM
Sherry. First let me say that you are the most concerned and thoughtful and caring mother as well as pet owner. I KNOW in my heart that it is not you or anything you have done or should have done or anything like that at all.

Second, I must say that I had the same experience with a dog I got for my children 20 years ago. He would not stop the same behaviours you've described and the biting was just unacceptable. I had to return him to the breeder. It broke my heart but my children's well fare came first and I began to fear anytime I would leave the room what he "might" do. He was a Bassett Hound. A breed known to be easy going, albeit a bit stubborn, but also very sweet. He was not.

Any reputable breeder will WANT you to bring the dog back to them. They do not want their breeders name and reputation ruined by a dog that didn't meet its standard.

From the photos and all you've described with working with Lincoln you've done everything you possibly can for him.

I believe Cesar Milan is an excellent dog trainer (whisperer) and stand beside his books and programs. I do think, from what you've said, that he too would suggest to return Lincoln to the breeder.

I don't think giving him to someone else is necessarily the right thing to do. At the very least consult the breeder. This is the same breeder that you've used before so I think from our conversations that you trust this breeder and it would be wise to consult them and return Lincoln.

I know I'm babbling on but this is a subject very near and dear to my heart. Sherry, this is not your fault. NOT AT ALL. As much as we love our dogs we always have to remember that they are dogs....animals. They are not our babies.

You and your family are in my prayers, my friend. This is a heartbreaking decision to have to make. I'm standing firm behind you whatever path you choose. Just don't blame yourself or feel guilt on your part.

God love you, my friend. I know from experience how much pain you are going through.

BIG HUGS.

Jennifer

smileycollector
07-06-2007, 09:19 PM
Oh dear Sherry,
I'm SO sorry to read about this! I'm a dog lover too and know that it has to be a very difficult decision for you. Since you asked our opinion, I say you *must* take action immediately and find Lincoln another home or take him back to the breeder if that's an option. You simply cannot risk him causing more serious injuries to your daughter. She must be so afraid of him already by the looks of her bites. It sounds like you've already tried everything and you shouldn't feel bad about returning him. Smiles & Hugs, Pam :)

Spartymom
07-06-2007, 09:36 PM
I think you need to do something. Your daughter probably does not like getting bit every time. You've had Lincoln for awhile now and she should have been trained by now with kids and your way of life. I'm thinking of you and your decision,.

MyRnAbS
07-06-2007, 09:40 PM
Sherry,
I know this is a tough one, but you have to make a decision and fast. What's more important to you the dog or your dd? Those are horrible bite marks! I would take him back immediately. It's hard enough when human's have issues, imagine a pet? OH NO!! You can never leave him alone with ur dd, and that is going to be a tough one. What if you're too tired, and dose off and then the doggie is left alone with her? No as hard as it may seem you need to give him up and just get yourself another dog. Make sure he's people trained. Poor little dd, those marks look horrible!! Praying for u, that God gives you the will power to take him back. Stay strong!!

directmailscrapper
07-06-2007, 09:48 PM
Sherry, I am not a dog owner, but I do love my cats so know how attached we get to our animals. But your first responsibility is to your daughter -- and I don't think you have any choice. Return him to the breeder -- and I would do it soon. Your daughter may end up scarred -- physically and she might end up afraid of dogs...

Far North
07-06-2007, 09:48 PM
Well, I thought I had a lot to share until I read Jennifer's posting. I totally AGREE! The issues with the dog are not your fault nor in the range of what is managable for your family. It may be a matter of breeding. Even Cesear says not all dogs can be trained. Call the breeder today...don't think about it any longer until after you talk to them...at least you will learn their point of view. Hugs and good thoughts!!!...Jan

Christie
07-06-2007, 10:21 PM
Wow this is hard. I know how much you love your dog and that you love your daughter more. Her safety is the main thing to be concerned about. You could try to contact that guy on tv, the dog whisper, maybe he can help. This dog has problems that have no reflection on you. sounds to me that he wasn't breed right and that maybe he is bred with some of his family, you know like an inbreed. I think you should really think about getting rid of him. Please let us know what you decide to do.

GrammaStamper
07-06-2007, 10:24 PM
Sherry, how sad, but Jenna needs to feel safe. She needs to know you are putting her first. Lincoln is a beautiful dog, but if he is jealous of Jenna, there is not much you can do about it, except to return him to the breeder. I agree with Jennifer, the breeder would want to know about these issues and will take him back, I'm sure. God Bless you as you make your decision.

shuggy
07-06-2007, 10:50 PM
i know it is heartbreaking, but i think you should return him. what if he starts hurting other people? then you would really be in trouble.

you can find another puppy that you will love just as much. you aren't a bad dog owner. just have a puppy with a mean streak.

JBgreendawn
07-06-2007, 11:14 PM
this is an easy one for me,

he has bitten your daughter and she comes first,
you don't have a choice here,
he has to go back before he really hurts her or someone else.
this is not a dog you can trust with your children.

I'm sorry my son has scars on his face from a dog bite when he was a toddler. the first time it was his hand and i thought well he wont bother the dog (who was 13 again) next time it was his face, left the dog in the yard, called my husband at work and said that dog is not welcome in my home no more.
period.
I'm sorry but a dog that bites kids is not a good thing.
(what if it decides it likes the taste of blood?)

spredbirds
07-06-2007, 11:38 PM
I know it will break your heart but it is the right thing to do to get rid of the dog .... if something really really bad happens to your daughter how will you feel then?? I'll say a prayer that you will find comfort with this.

-Chelsea

mahodgman
07-07-2007, 12:37 AM
I have to agree with what everyone else has already said. As hard as it will be, Lincoln has got to go....and soon!

GSMom385
07-07-2007, 01:51 AM
I know it is hard when a pet decides to do the biting thing. I have never owned dogs, but I have always had cats. The second one I ever owned was a wonderful cat until about 9months old, and then went absolutely nuts on me after my daughter was born. It started out as small nips at me or my daughter who was an infant at the time. I chalked it up to the baby grabbed her fur at first, but then it was the cat jumping into her play pen with her to take a bite. I came home one day to her on top of the frig teeth barred at me and ready to pounce on top of us. It took both my hubby and I to catch her and control her into the kennel. She was a pure breed and we took her back to the breeder and they had to put her down, as she bit the second owners as well, people without children. That was the only time I have owned a pure breed, and we paid a lot of money for her too, which I didn't get back. I was really upset and thought it was something I did so I talked to my vet about it, he told me that pure breeds are more likely to have temperment problems, and more likely to have health issues, and it wasn't my fault, or the baby's fault. He recommended mixed breeds, and said he never likes to see pure breeds in anything. After those comments I have only had muts since then and we have loved everyone of them dearly and never had a lick of problem. All animals have their little quirks just like people, some you can learn to live with and love others are not something to mess around with. Biting is a bad problem, I would definately get rid of the dog. JMO

ellie
07-07-2007, 02:13 AM
Holy Cow...is this the same dog I saw in the video? Is he a yellow lab or golden retriever? It is so uncommon for either of these breeds to act like this...I am positive it isn't anything you have done. To me, it sounds like a bad breeder. I know it's hard because you become so attached, but the safety of your child is more important. It could be that the dog is jealous of her or I wonder if his pedigree has been mixed with something else along the line. At any rate, I vote for returning him.

emmcee
07-07-2007, 07:07 AM
Oh my gracious, I agree with everyone else, Sherry. Lincoln has to go and soon! I know you love him & all that, but Jenna comes first.

teabear
07-07-2007, 10:42 AM
Sherry, I have to share this with you after reading your post. I couldn't read all the other responses, so sorry if I am repeating. Please do whatever you have to do to protect your daughter. She is so much more important than a dog. My husband's parents kept a dog that bit my husband when he was a kid. Eventually, that dog bit off my husbands chin. A plastic surgeon was able to repair it, but he has no sensation below his mouth and on his chin. The emotional damage to him is even deeper. They kept the dog even after that. You can't do that to your beautiful daughter.

Erin K
07-07-2007, 11:35 AM
I'd return him. Ask them what they will do with him but your responsibility is to your daughter. You've done all that can be expected. I mean seriously

That pic of her face tells me get rid of that dog.

dgbearsmom
07-07-2007, 11:36 AM
Sherry, I rarely post here and I really have nothing else to add. I just wanted you to know that someone else also has you in her thoughts. I totally understand how hard a decision this is for you. Knowing that returning Lincoln to the breeder or finding him another home is the right decision doesn't really make it any easier. It IS the right thing to do. Your daughter could be seriously injured physically and emotionally and that is the most important consideration. It is so unusual for labs to have this type of temperment. I'm sorry that you had to go through this.

Take care,
Judy

HeatherJ
07-07-2007, 04:11 PM
I remember your anticipation and the countdown when he would be arriving at your place! I know it is very difficult for you but I agree with the others, your DD is more important and you can't take another chance, it may be much more serious then.

toao
07-07-2007, 06:50 PM
I've been where you are. I had two beautiful labs when Tori was born. One of them was agressive and the other one was a big loving lug of a dog. He was HUGE I tell you. I would have kept him, but he wanted loving so badly that he would just up on you and literally knock you down. I made the tough decision of finding someone that would take both dogs and give them a good home....one without children. I was blessed to have found a kind lady that took them both in. My daughter came first, and I know that as much as you would like to keep Lincoln, your decision is most likely already made for you. I think you have done everything possible to correct his behavior. Keep your chin up, it will be hard to say goodbye, but it's definitely the right decision.

Mary

mydogstinks2
07-07-2007, 07:27 PM
I understand where you are coming from. Fred does not like people or kids at all. He will put up with them but will not be friendly to them. My nephew, who is 6 will bug Fred and we have told him to leave Fred alone and if he bites him that is his fault. BUT if fred ever went after one of the kids just because he wanted to I would get rid of him. As much as I love him he would have to go.

We had a dog once before that we loved to death but she did not like the kids and would go after them. She went to a home with no children and no childern that came over to that home.

buggainok
07-08-2007, 04:05 PM
Sherry,

I have to agree with all the other posters, that he must go back. I am a dog/cat lover too, and know it is hard to make a decision like this.

Years ago before the Dog Whisperer was on TV there was a British lady that had a show and a book, called No Bad Dogs. But even she said that occasionally you get a dog that is actually "mentally ill." She said dogs can have a form of schizophrenia and be very untrainable.

It sounds like Lincoln might be such a dog. It is not your fault, nor is it his, but your family cannot suffer for it.

Hugs, Annette

workin4stamps
07-09-2007, 10:53 AM
Oh my goodness, Sherry. I am SO sorry to hear this. I can only imagine the torture you are going through right now trying to make this decision. I didn't really have time to read all of the other posts, but it sounds like everyone is pretty much in agreement....Lincoln should go back. I have heard of giving dogs back to the breeders...in fact, our breeder told us if we EVER had to get rid of Colby for any reason, he should go back to them. So I think that would be the right thing to do. You have taken ALL of the steps you could to try and work this out, and it is just not working. As heartbreaking as it must be, it sounds like you know what you should do, and I don't think anyone would place any blame on you.

I'm SO sorry about this.

Traci

midnitecreations
07-09-2007, 01:48 PM
Sherry, I went through a very similar thing. My puppy had bit my son on the face and would not listen to anything I told him. He was afraid of strangers, barked incessantly when we left him outside and when locked in one of the rooms, literraly tore the bottom of a door so he could run free. I never felt safe with him. I thought that was the pupose of having a dog. A playmate for my son and for safety issues for me. Since he was neither a playmate nor made me feel secure, I ended up giving him back. I figured if this is the way he was as a puppy when he should be maelable and playful, what would he be like when he became a full grown dog. He was 5 months when we got him and 10 months when we gave him back.